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David Godman interview ...

I would say that Self-realization is what remains when the mind irrevocably dies in the Heart. The Heart is not a particular place in the body. It is the formless Self, the source and origin of all manifestation. Self-realization is permanent and irreversible. I also suspect that it is quite rare. Many people have had glimpses or temporary experiences of a state of being in which the mind, the individual "I", temporarily stops functioning, but I don't think that there are many people in the world in whom the "I" has died.

Papaji used to say, "What comes and goes is not real. If you have had an experience that came and went, it was not an experience of the Self because the Self never comes and goes."

I think this is an interesting comment. If it is true, it means that most waking-up experiences are merely new states of mind. It is only when the mind dies completely, never to rise again, that the Self really shines as one's own natural state.

The terms "glimpses" and "waking-up experiences" that you refer to are temporary. They come and they go because the '"I" itself has not been permanently eradicated. A powerful Guru may be able to give a glimpse of the Self to just about anyone, but it is not within his power to make it stick. If the person has a mind that is full of desires, those desires will eventually rise again and cover up the glimpse.

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